English and other languages

[Jonathan de Boyne Pollard]

Which five did you have in mind. The ones that spring to mind where
not only is it an official language (of one sort or another) but also
at least a majority of the people are native speakers are the US, the
UK, Australia, Canada, Ireland, South Africa, and New Zealand. I
probably missed a few.

That's probably the wrong definition, considering that the original
question was about newsgroup participation. It is interesting that a
particularly large grouping of English speakers, Indian English
speakers, is chronically underrepresented on Usenet.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sep 2, 5:00 am, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-

Post by Jonathan de Boyne Pollard

Which five did you have in mind.  The ones that spring to mind where
not only is it an official language (of one sort or another) but also
at least a majority of the people are native speakers are the US, the
UK, Australia, Canada, Ireland, South Africa, and New Zealand.  I
probably missed a few.

That's probably the wrong definition, considering that the original
question was about newsgroup participation.  It is interesting that a
particularly large grouping of English speakers, Indian English
speakers, is chronically underrepresented on Usenet.

Is there some reason this was suddenly crossposted to sci.lang with no
context whatsoever?

Five what?

[Peter Moylan]

Post by Jonathan de Boyne Pollard

Which five did you have in mind. The ones that spring to mind where
not only is it an official language (of one sort or another) but also
at least a majority of the people are native speakers are the US, the
UK, Australia, Canada, Ireland, South Africa, and New Zealand. I
probably missed a few.

That's probably the wrong definition, considering that the original
question was about newsgroup participation. It is interesting that a
particularly large grouping of English speakers, Indian English
speakers, is chronically underrepresented on Usenet.

They're chained up to their telephones, their shackles on their heads.

[charles q]

On Sep 2, 2:00 am, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-

Post by Jonathan de Boyne Pollard

Which five did you have in mind.  The ones that spring to mind where
not only is it an official language (of one sort or another) but also
at least a majority of the people are native speakers are the US, the
UK, Australia, Canada, Ireland, South Africa, and New Zealand.  I
probably missed a few.

That's probably the wrong definition, considering that the original
question was about newsgroup participation.  It is interesting that a
particularly large grouping of English speakers, Indian English
speakers, is chronically underrepresented on Usenet.

I have thought for very many years considring the fact that I'm
hitting 60 now and spent a lot of time in europe that our scholls
should make learning a second language a mandatory course

[Peter Moylan]

On Sep 2, 2:00 am, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-

Post by Jonathan de Boyne Pollard

Which five did you have in mind. The ones that spring to mind where
not only is it an official language (of one sort or another) but also
at least a majority of the people are native speakers are the US, the
UK, Australia, Canada, Ireland, South Africa, and New Zealand. I
probably missed a few.

That's probably the wrong definition, considering that the original
question was about newsgroup participation. It is interesting that a
particularly large grouping of English speakers, Indian English
speakers, is chronically underrepresented on Usenet.

I have thought for very many years considring the fact that I'm
hitting 60 now and spent a lot of time in europe that our scholls
should make learning a second language a mandatory course

At your age, which is in the same ballpark as mine, I'm surprised that
it wasn't compulsory when you went to school. It seems to me that having
a second language as a core subject didn't drop out until a generation
or two later.

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by charles q
I have thought for very many years considring the fact that I'm
hitting 60 now and spent a lot of time in europe that our scholls
should make learning a second language a mandatory course

Some places do. The Chicago Public School District, for example,
requires two years of the same foreign language as a high school
graduation requirement. (I left Chicago before high school, but
Spanish was a mandatory course at my school in 7th and 8th grade.)

The local public high schools don't appear to have any requirement of
their own, but to be eligible for either the University of California
or California State University, you need to have two years (three
recommended) of the same foreign language, and high schools tend to
push students toward satisfying these college entrance requirements.

Post by Peter Moylan
At your age, which is in the same ballpark as mine, I'm surprised
that it wasn't compulsory when you went to school. It seems to me
that having a second language as a core subject didn't drop out
until a generation or two later.

What seems to have mostly died out is having a *single* second
language as a school-wide core subject. The "mostly" is for
situations like my experience with Spanish in Chicago (although,
admittedly, that was 33 years ago, and the school doesn't seem to do
it anymore) and my son's current experience with Hebrew in his
(private) elementary/middle school.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by charles q
I have thought for very many years considring the fact that I'm
hitting 60 now and spent a lot of time in europe that our scholls
should make learning a second language a mandatory course

Some places do.  The Chicago Public School District, for example,
requires two years of the same foreign language as a high school
graduation requirement.  (I left Chicago before high school, but
Spanish was a mandatory course at my school in 7th and 8th grade.)
The local public high schools don't appear to have any requirement of
their own, but to be eligible for either the University of California
or California State University, you need to have two years (three
recommended) of the same foreign language, and high schools tend to
push students toward satisfying these college entrance requirements.

Post by Peter Moylan
At your age, which is in the same ballpark as mine, I'm surprised
that it wasn't compulsory when you went to school. It seems to me
that having a second language as a core subject didn't drop out
until a generation or two later.

What seems to have mostly died out is having a *single* second
language as a school-wide core subject.  The "mostly" is for
situations like my experience with Spanish in Chicago (although,
admittedly, that was 33 years ago, and the school doesn't seem to do
it anymore) and my son's current experience with Hebrew in his
(private) elementary/middle school.

At my Episcopal school in NYC, we started French in 3rd grade (1958),
Latin in 7th (1962), and a small group of us were told we would take
German in 10th (1965). Spanish was not an option. Our only choice was
between Latin and Physics in 12th grade (I took physics).

[James Silverton]

Post by Evan Kirshenbaum

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by charles q
I have thought for very many years considring the fact that I'm
hitting 60 now and spent a lot of time in europe that our scholls
should make learning a second language a mandatory course

Some places do. The Chicago Public School District, for example,
requires two years of the same foreign language as a high school
graduation requirement. (I left Chicago before high school, but
Spanish was a mandatory course at my school in 7th and 8th grade.)
The local public high schools don't appear to have any requirement of
their own, but to be eligible for either the University of California
or California State University, you need to have two years (three
recommended) of the same foreign language, and high schools tend to
push students toward satisfying these college entrance requirements.

Post by Peter Moylan
At your age, which is in the same ballpark as mine, I'm surprised
that it wasn't compulsory when you went to school. It seems to me
that having a second language as a core subject didn't drop out
until a generation or two later.

What seems to have mostly died out is having a *single* second
language as a school-wide core subject. The "mostly" is for
situations like my experience with Spanish in Chicago (although,
admittedly, that was 33 years ago, and the school doesn't seem to do
it anymore) and my son's current experience with Hebrew in his
(private) elementary/middle school.

Growing up in Scotland, two Ordinary (referred to as "Lower") level
language passes were required for any admission to University. They
reduced it to one pass when the time came for me to apply. I wonder what
it is now?

[John Dunlop]

Post by James Silverton
Growing up in Scotland, two Ordinary (referred to as "Lower") level
language passes were required for any admission to University. They
reduced it to one pass when the time came for me to apply. I wonder what
it is now?

Qualifications in Scottish secondary schools are Standard Grades, which
replaced the old O-grades you mention and are now themselves being phased
out, and Highers. My BSc course at Strathclyde required certain grades in
Higher Maths and Higher English, and passes in a number of other Highers,
but no language qualification.

[Mike Lyle]

On Fri, 09 Sep 2011 18:59:58 +0100, John Dunlop

Post by John Dunlop

Post by James Silverton
Growing up in Scotland, two Ordinary (referred to as "Lower") level
language passes were required for any admission to University. They
reduced it to one pass when the time came for me to apply. I wonder what
it is now?

Qualifications in Scottish secondary schools are Standard Grades, which
replaced the old O-grades you mention and are now themselves being phased
out, and Highers. My BSc course at Strathclyde required certain grades in
Higher Maths and Higher English, and passes in a number of other Highers,
but no language qualification.

A presumably intended (our leaders are clever, after all: they can't
have made so obvious a mistake) consequence of the targets culture in
England and Wales is that many schools don't teach any foreign
language for the public exams. I think the national curriculum insists
on two years, but that's the box ticked.

[John Dunlop]

[John Dunlop:]

...

Post by John Dunlop
Qualifications in Scottish secondary schools are Standard Grades, which
replaced the old O-grades you mention and are now themselves being
phased out, and Highers. My BSc course at Strathclyde required certain
grades in Higher Maths and Higher English, and passes in a number of
other Highers, but no language qualification.

A presumably intended (our leaders are clever, after all: they can't
have made so obvious a mistake) consequence of the targets culture in
England and Wales is that many schools don't teach any foreign language
for the public exams. I think the national curriculum insists on two
years, but that's the box ticked.

Much the same chez mines, I believe. In our secondary school, an
academy,* French was taken by everyone in first and second year.
German was an option in third year. I can't remember if languages
were compulsory at Standard Grade level. I don't think they were.

* I don't know why some are "academies" and others "high schools".

[Christian Weisgerber]

Which five did you have in mind. The ones that spring to mind where
not only is it an official language (of one sort or another) but also
at least a majority of the people are native speakers are the US, the
UK, Australia, Canada, Ireland, South Africa, and New Zealand.

A majority of South Africans are native speakers of English?

From the 2001 census:

| Despite the fact that English is recognised as the language of
| commerce and science, it was spoken by only 8,2% of South
| Africans at home in 2001, an even lower percentage than in 1996
| (8,6%).

http://www.statssa.gov.za/census01/html/Key%20results_files/Key%20results.pdf
(Page 5)

[Peter T. Daniels]

Post by Christian Weisgerber

Which five did you have in mind.  The ones that spring to mind where
not only is it an official language (of one sort or another) but also
at least a majority of the people are native speakers are the US, the
UK, Australia, Canada, Ireland, South Africa, and New Zealand.

A majority of South Africans are native speakers of English?
| Despite the fact that English is recognised as the language of
| commerce and science, it was spoken by only 8,2% of South
| Africans at home in 2001, an even lower percentage than in 1996
| (8,6%).
http://www.statssa.gov.za/census01/html/Key%20results_files/Key%20res...
(Page 5)

Afrikaans is more than 50% higher than English, but Zulu and Xhosa are
both considerably higher than that.

The typography of that booklet, incidentally, is lousy.